God of Jesus, god of Jews or a mixture?

[Doug]

Two Gods? Do you believe Jesus? John 8:44 - You are of your father the devil etc. (Jesus speaking to the Jewish religious leaders)

The Jews, their blood sacrificial religion and their god is the devil. The God of Jesus is the father God. The God of Jesus says He will NOT have sacrifice but mercy. Christianity is a Judaic christian belief. Half Jewish sacrificial blood atonement and half mercy and forgiveness. Little do they understand that payment for sin by blood sacrifice is a work of the flesh that they accept. Faith is believing God will have mercy on you if you confess your sins and He will cleanse you from all unrighteousness.

If you believe the words of Jesus you are a follower of the way.
If you believe the words of a religion you are a follower of a system of religion.

Most christians believe the god of the Jews and their religion is the God of Jesus. According to Jesus this is not so. The devil is not the God of Jesus, The Father, full of everlasting mercy, is the God of Jesus.
The question remains: How many christians believe Jesus and how many believe in the christian church mixture of gods?

[Gloria]

In my opinion, Jews, Muslims and Christians worship the same God. What we call "God" is just the nature of the ultimate reality or the nature of the Supreme being or the Almighty/All-powerful. God the Father is All-knowing, All-powerful, everlasting, etc. God the son or Jesus just like the Father is All-knowing, all-powerful, everlasting, etc. God the Holy Spirit is also all-knowing, all-powerful, everlasting, etc. You see there are 3 distinct persons but these 3 distinct persons share a common nature(all-knowing, all-powerful, everlasting, etc.) and it is this common nature that we refer to as God. Jewish people do not believe in God the Son. Jewish people do not consider Jesus a member of the Trinity. Jesus people believe that God the Father or Y_HW_H is one and God alone. Muslims just like Jews believe that God the Father or Allah is one and the only God. Christians however believe that Jesus Christ is God, God the Father is God, and God the Holy spirit is also God. In other words, Christians believe that God is made up of 3 distinct persons with a common nature. God the Father or Y-HW-H is the God of Abraham and since all 3 religions believe in the God the Father that is why they are "Abrahamic" religions. Jesus is not God the Father in terms of "persons" but Jesus is equal to God the Father in terms of "nature".

[Doug]

In your opinion all Gods are the same. I appreciate your opinion Gloria. From what I read of your opinion the opinion of Jesus is of no consequence in forming your opinion. When Jesus says the god of the Jews is the DEVIL and his God is the Father God I would think the Word of God would have some bearing on your opinion. If Jesus is equal to God, as you say, then in my opinion I would be scared to death to contradict Him when He says the god of the jewish religion (the devil) is different from His Father God.

Remember when the worlds most powerful religious leader, the pope, said in his opinion the world was flat and went so far as to destroy the astronomer that proved it was round? Sometimes looking at things like they are and not as we think they should be can be exciting, exhilarating and even humbling.

Personally I know what what all the "Abrahamic" religions believe but I will stick with what Jesus believes even if the "Abrahamic" religions kill me as they did Jesus for telling them their god was the DEVIL!

A rather interesting study of the Word of Jesus don't you think?

[Gloria]

You have a very good point here. However, this is what Jesus says in John 10:30. Jesus said "I and my Father are one". The "one" here doesn't represent "person" but "nature". Although Jesus and God the Father are 2 distinct persons, they have a common "nature". I am a Catholic so my views may represent the Catholic view. Here is what the Catholic Church says about the 3 distinct persons with a common nature:

John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word. the Word was with God and the Word was God" If Jesus is the Word of God then this verse shows that Jesus was there in the beginning with God the Father which makes Jesus divine and eternal just like God the Father.
From Mic. 5:2 "the Messiah(Jesus) had always been in existence". Also, take a look at John 5:18 "The Jews wanted to kill Jesus because He was making himself equal with God"
Acts 5:3,4 ""… you have lied to the Holy Spirit … you have not lied to men, but to God." also supports the idea that the Holy Spirit is God.
Also read 1Cor 12:4-31
"There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men"...
There are many more verses in the Bible supporting the idea that Jesus is One with God and also the idea that the Holy Spirit is God. There are 3 distinct persons with a common nature and that nature is what we call God. In other words, there is just ONE God but there are 3 distinct persons in this ONE God

[test]

Please Note: We are very sorry the last two posts of this thread got deleted. It wasn't intentional. We had a problem with our server and we had to restore to an earlier backup. Unfortunately it affected newer posts. We tried to find copies from google cache but unfortunately we couldn't get copies. We are very sorry about that. Thanks very much.

[Doug]

We got deleted I see. I don't know what you responded to my last post but let me muse again if I may.

"If Jesus is the Word of God" you say. If? Lets see if we can find out why he is, how he is, was he always and if the Word is God, how does God (a spirit) speak to mankind?

My word is spirit and truth says Jesus. I do nothing or SAY nothing but what the Holy Spirit tells me to do or SAY. So why whatever Jesus spoke is Spirit? Simple! Because the Holy Spirit always tells Jesus what to say. So according to the very words of Jesus, Jesus never spoke on his own but only what the Spirit told him to speak. Same with all the prophets. They spoke or prophesied when the Spirit of God came upon them and anointed them to speak. The only difference is God anointed Jesus with His Spirit and the Spirit remained on him for the last three years of his life and never left him according to the scriptures. The Greek word Christ means anointing in english. The Hebrew word Messiah means anointing in English. Therefor Jesus the Christ means Jesus the anointed. Remember? John the Baptist saw the Spirit descending on Jesus in the form of a dove when Jesus was thirty years old. Jesus said he had to die in order to send the spirit to us for it would not leave him until he died.

Now Gloria if the Holy Spirit always told Jesus what to say then the Word of God was the Spirit of God telling Jesus to utter to man the Word of God. So according to the very words of Jesus the Holy Spirit of God was giving Jesus the words to speak to humans therefore the Word became flesh and lived among us. These words are not religious doctrine but the simple words of Jesus for us to believe or disbelieve in preference of our respective religion.

Matt.13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary?
John 1:45 Philip found Nathan'a-el and said to him, We have found him of whom Moses in the law and also the prophets wrote, Jesus of Nazareth the son of JOSEPH.
Luke 13:33 Nevertheless I must go on my way today and tomorrow and the day following: for it cannot be that a PROPHET should perish away from Jerusalem.

So Gloria Jesus according to his own words and those of his disciples said his father was Joseph and that Jesus was a Prophet.

So Jesus spoke the word of God given him by the Holy Spirit. Thus the Word of God became flesh. The Spirit of God taking up permanent residence in Jesus became a flesh and blood man speaking the Word of God as the Spirit gave them to him.

So no! The Holy spirit is the Word of God. Jesus is the Word of God made flesh. Got that? MADE FLESH? The Word was MADE flesh, not born flesh. It lived among us in the body of Jesus Christ. In English - Jesus anointed. Jesus anointed with the Spirit of God, the Word of God. Remember there were only two persons in the very beginning of creation. God and the Spirit hovering over the waters. Remember God said let us make man in our own image and likeness? God and His Spirit, the Word of God. God said let this and that happen and it happened or was created. When God says something what does He do? He Speaks the Word.

Happy reading and remember it is the words of Jesus that are eternal life.

[Gloria]

Thanks again for this great post. I replied to your earlier post but it got deleted. The reason why I used "However" in my earlier post (the post about Trinity) is that I don't agree with you on the idea that the Jewish god is the devil because Judaism as a religion is monotheistic and they believe in the one and only God of Abraham or YAHWEH and Jesus made it very clear that He(Jesus) and YAHWEH are one. Although YAHWEH is the only God in Judaism, not every Jew worshiped YAHWEH. There were pagan Jews too. Some worshiped baal and other pagan gods and it was right to refer to the god of the pagan Jews as the devil. So when Jesus says the god of the Jews is the devil, he is referring to the pagan gods of the Jews and not the God of Abraham or YAHWEH.
You made a very clear point in your new post. "The Holy spirit is the Word of God. Jesus is the Word of God made flesh. Got that? MADE FLESH? The Word was MADE flesh, not born flesh. It lived among us in the body of Jesus Christ". Yes you are right and I agree with you on that. The only part I don't agree is this, "... there were only two persons in the very beginning of creation". This is just like denying the divinity of Jesus. If Jesus wasn't there at the beginning of creation then Jesus cannot be equal to the Father because the Father is older than Jesus. Also, Jesus cannot be eternal if He(Jesus) wasn't there at the beginning of creation. He cannot be eternal as the Father because there was a time the Father existed without Jesus. Arius of Alexandria had the same view but the catholic church condemned that as heresy. According to the Catholic view, Jesus is as eternal as the Father. In other words, there was no time the Father existed without Jesus which means there were 3 persons and not 2 in the beginning of creation.

[Doug]

The only part I don't agree is this, "... there were only two persons in the very beginning of creation". Gloria I really do not care if you agree or not. If you read the beginning of creation in the first few verses please point out to me where there is anyone else other than God and the Spirit of God moving on the face of the waters. It was this same Spirit of God telling Jesus what to say not Jesus saying it because he was God. The Holy Spirit was God telling Jesus what to say. Please don’t throw religion at me as proof of what God said or did. Open your bible, find what God said, show me and then we can have an intelligent conversation and possibly learn the truth of things. I have no intention of discussing any religion or its beliefs. I think you may be ingenious in switching our discussion from the word of God to the word of your religion when the two differ.

You say you are a catholic and your views represent the catholic view. I am a believer in the Word of God and my views represent the view of the Word of God. So now where do we go? Me trying to prove catholics are in error or you, a catholic, trying to prove God is in error.

You quote John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word. the Word was with God and the Word was God" I’m looking, yes i’m looking very hard and I only see two. The Word was with God. Now when Jesus says he was given the Word of God by the Spirit of God to speak to the people then it is the Spirit of God who is or has the Word of God to give to Jesus. Jesus was given the word to speak. He did not have the Word but was given the Word by the Holy Spirit which had the Word of God to give to Jesus. Go ahead Gloria tell Jesus he don’t know what he is talking about. Go ahead and tell the Holy Spirit he did not give Jesus the Word of God to speak to us but that the man Jesus was Gods word. Look at it this way Gloria. If Jesus was the divine Word of God then he must of forgot the Word of God because the Holy Spirit had to tell him every Word of God to say. If Jesus was the divine Word of God then why would God have to anoint or pour into Jesus His Holy Spirit to tell Jesus what to say or do? Maybe Jesus forgot he was the divine Word of God and had to rely on the Holy Spirit to tell him Gods Word. It might be worthwhile for Jesus to look into catholic doctrine for some direction and truth to who he is. He thought that to whom the Word of God came were Gods (John 10:35). Well the Word of God came to Jesus in the form of a dove, anointed Jesus with it and Jesus spoke what was told him. That's why Jesus said he was a God Gloria. The Word of God came to him. He was not the divine Word of God.
Two in the beginning according to scripture. God and the Word and the Word was God. So who is God? The WORD IS GOD. So the Word spoke creation in existence so now we have only one God the Word, for the Word WAS God says scripture. So as you point out Muslims just like Jews believe that God the Father or Allah is one and the only God. Make up your mind Gloria, you say in my opinion, Jews, Muslims and Christians worship the same God. What we call "God" I really don’t fathom how a God with no parts can be the same as a God with three parts. Better tell the god of the JEWS he is missing a few parts. A god missing a few pars is the same as a god with all his parts? Rubbish!

The god of the old testament and god of the new testament are two different gods.
The truth is that modern Christianity (including parts of the Bible) would be almost completely unrecognizable to the original Christians. In fact, it may shock you to know, but Christ is actually a sun deity. Where as the old testament god, jehova, is ALLAH...the racist, sexist, murderer who makes laws about stoning women when they are raped. However, Constantine and King James of England changed and used this religion for political control over the masses. The Pope is a political entity...period. The stories of the gnostic christians were politicized and attached to the old testament in order to make a land claim in the MidEast...hence the Crusades
. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kla-BcN8u8Q This video does a great job of showing what christianity WAS really about.
"My point, once again, is not that those ancient people told literal stories and we are now smart enough to take them symbolically, but that they told them symbolically and we are now dumb enough to take them literally." – John Dominic Crossan