America and Allies (Britain and France) in Libya for Oil?

[Kofi]

We all saw what Gadhafi was doing to his own people. We all saw how Gadhafi was murdering innocent civilians just because they asked for a change. People were making up all sorts of stories about how slow the UN council has become these days and how slow the UN response was towards the crisis in Libya. In fact the UN decision making concerning the crisis in Libya was a little bit slow considering the number of innocent people dying every single day in Libya. But finally the UN decided to act.

The UN council voted and it was agreed upon that Gaddafi must declare and enforce a ceasefire or face the consequences of his actions but Gadhafi refused to obey by the UN rules and that is the main reason why there are foreign troops in Libya today. The American, the French, and the British troops deployed to Libya to help save lives and not to destroy lives.

The foreign troops went to Libya to protect innocent civilians. American troops are in Libya not to kill but to protect innocent civilians. French troops are in Libya not to hunt and kill women and children but to protect women and children from the hands of the Gadhafi. The British troops went to Libya not to bomb innocent civilians but to help protect innocent lives and that is exactly what all these foreign troops are doing in Libya right now protecting innocent people especially women and children from the hands of the Gadhafi. Gaddafi kills and destroys even innocent children and poor women. Gaddafi said he will "have no mercy".

Today I read an article on CNN and I was shocked to read so many people including even some Americans believe that America and Allies are in Libya purposely for oil which doesn't make sense to me at all. "America is in Libya for oil" makes sense to those who were too blind to see what Gadhafi was doing to his own people. Those who believe France is in Libya for oil are those who think what Gadhafi is doing is right.

Maybe it is true they are there for the oil but why didn't they go to Libya last year?. They are in Libya now because they've seen an opportunity created by Gaddafi himself. The foreign troops are in Libya not to bomb innocent citizens but Gaddafi is there in Libya and is ready to bomb any person who speaks against him. We are all humans and we all deserve the right to be free and that is what makes the foreign troops in Libya, Angels even if they are there to take all the oil. Even yesterday in the news some Libyans were praising Obama and Sarkozy for helping tame the monster(Gaddafi).

Gadhafi was using air power to bomb innocent civilians but now he is afraid to do so because he has come to realize the foreign troops in Libya know how to bomb even better. You may hear "bombing" in the news but those bombings you hear in the news are not civilian-targeted like what the wicked Gaddafi was doing.
It doesn't make sense to support Gadhafi. Those who think what American, French, and British troops are doing in Libya right now is wrong are those who don't care that much. They are speaking against foreign troops in Libya as if they care but in reality, these are the people who care not.

America is the greatest nation on earth not just because of the money. America is the greatest nation on earth not just because of the big companies and the prosperous economy. America is the greatest nation on earth because in times of crisis like these America always steps in to help while the other so-called superpowers just fold their arms and watch as if nothing is happening. I may be wrong but I have never seen China take any such step in times of crisis. Even when it comes to UN voting in times of crisis, China most of the times doesn't even vote. The same applies to Russia and the rest. Once again I may be wrong but I have never seen Russia take any first step in times of crisis. In the exception of America, all the other so-called superpowers just live as superpowers in history.

My post is getting too long but what I am trying to say is that, the foreign troops in Libya are doing a great job and deserve nothing but praises and encouragement. Gadhafi is a very wicked person and must be tamed so the poor Libyans may get their freedom of expression. Let them take all the oil and help protect human lives why because even one human life is far more precious than all the oil in the world.

My post is getting too long so I will end here. What do you think?

[Doug]

Quote: " Gadhafi is a very wicked person and must be tamed so the poor Libyans may get their freedom of expression.". So what do I think?

Yes I think that the 140 different tribes in Libya should get their freedom of expression so that once again they will have the freedom to kill each other as in the old days. After all giving the freedom to be wicked and kill should not be given to just one man. There should be more equality in this matter.

I think these do gooder nations should mind their own business and let these 140 Libya tribes have their freedom to kill each other once again. After all what right do other nations have to take away the right to kill each other, a tribal custom for hundreds of years?

What's fair is fair. What do you think?

[Kofi]

Most people consider the foreign troops in Libya, foreign intrusion which I don't think is the case. If Libya was not a member of the UN council then I would agree this is a foreign intrusion. If Libya was not a member of the O.A.U then I would agree this is a foreign intrusion. If Libya was not a member of the Arab League then I would agree this is a foreign intrusion. However, this is not the case. Libya is a member of the UN council. In fact Libya joined the UN long time ago (somewhere in 1990) so Libya knows how the UN works. Also, Libya isn't the first nation the UN has sanctioned and neither is Libya the first nation to see UN 'foreign' troops. That is the way the UN works.

Before you join any organization there are rules and regulations you agree to follow and Gadhafi surely agreed to follow those rules and regulations. Gadhafi has disobeyed the UN rules and regulations and therefore like any other organization or group, the other members in the UN council have the right to take actions against the offender and that is exactly what the UN is doing right now. I don't think there would be any foreign troops in Libya if UN said NO.
I would consider this UN operation in Libya very bad if the conflict in Libya started after the arrival of the foreign troops but this isn't the case. Libyans started the conflict themselves and I don't think they started the conflict just to kill themselves. They started the conflict to demand for the right to be free and yes it is a fundamental human right and that is why I think there is nothing wrong with foreign intervention.

Yes 'what is fair is fair' and what is not fair is not fair. But in this case what the UN is doing in Libya is very fair.

I'd like to think that the U.S. forces (and allies) are in Libya to protect human rights, and not to keep control over oil, but this article really didn't give any real explanation as to why the oil scheme is not the case. You just basically stated your own opinion repeatedly without many facts on why we are there to protect the Libyan people.

[Kofi]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I'd like to think that the U.S. forces (and allies) are in Libya to protect human rights, and not to keep control over oil, but this article really didn't give any real explanation as to why the oil scheme is not the case. You just basically stated your own opinion repeatedly without many facts on why we are there to protect the Libyan people.

I was hoping you would give the reasons why the oil scheme is the case but you couldn't give any reason why you think the oil scheme is the case which means what I am saying is very true. I would be able to give reasons why the oil scheme is the case if it is true that the oil scheme is the case but the oil scheme is NOT the reason why the foreign troops are in Libya and that is why I did not waste precious time proving why it is NOT. If you think the foreign troops are in Libya for oil then prove to me what you are saying is true besides the usual anti-American propaganda. Give me one tangible reason why America is in Libya for oil if you think so. Give me another reason why you think France is in Libya for oil. Also don't forget to give me another reason why the UN said NO to Gaddafi.

[Doug]

Yes 'what is fair is fair' and what is not fair is not fair. But in this case what the UN is doing in Libya is very fair.

Ha Ha Ha! The Jews had, have and are now breaking many rules of the UN. They have killed many many more people than Gaddafi. They have taken other peoples land many times and nobody did nothing. They have starved thousands of innocent people and nobody did anything but give them more money and arms to do more of their treachery. So what the UN is doing in Libya is very fair? Your blind in one eye and can't hear out of the other.

Yes, you just basically state your own opinion repeatedly without many facts. I hate to agree with this statement but it is so true. You make up your little stories of 'what if's' but nothing to substantiate it. You want other people to give reasons why they say things? What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

Did Gaddafi start this rebellion? No, the rebels did. Maybe you don't like him but many people do. They are giving up their lives to preserve their country as is. Gaddafi did not start this thing, the rebels did. Gaddafi is fighting to preserve the country and it's government. Gaddafi, as you said Kofi, joined the UN. Now the UN turned against Gaddafi and his government to back the rebels who want to destroy a UN sanctioned government. What's fair is fair so why don't the UN back those who want to destroy the Jewish rotten land-grabbing killing waring nation. Of course they have no oil but give the UN air bases and such to destroy nations governments who do have oil. And what is not fair is not fair.

So what does your monkey say about this?

[Kofi]

"So what does your monkey say about this?". The rhesus monkey is quiet this time around but he once said, "my eyes are my oracles".

You are right I was just talking from my personal point of view without supportive facts but that is what I think about this whole situation. It is also true I hate Gaddafi but I don't hate him as a human being. I just hate him for being heartless. I don't know much about what goes on outside Africa but I do know something about what goes on inside Africa because Africa is my home. You mentioned Israel and the truth is that I don't know much about what goes on over there so you may be right.

I know most of you have heard about Idi Amin. Idi Amin was the worst African dictator ever. Idi Amin killed not less than 400,000 people including foreigners (Whites and Indians who were working in Uganda) during his time as president of Uganda from 1971 to 1979. One thing most outsiders don't know about Idi Amin is that, Idi Amin was Gaddafi's best friend. In fact, according to sources, Gaddafi trained Idi Amin because Idi Amin was an illiterate who never attended school and depended mostly on his best friend Gaddafi. Even when the poor Ugandans decided to chase Idi Amin out of Uganda, Gaddafi gave Idi Amin a place to stay in his palace in Libya before Idi Amin moved to Saudi Arabia where he died. If such a monster was Gaddafi's bestfriend then what is wrong in calling Gaddafi a monster? after all, birds of the same feathers flock together. I used to hate Mubarak of Egypt as president but I don't hate him now because he gave up. I am not saying they should kill Gaddafi. I just want Gaddafi out so the people may be free.

Not all the people you see on tv with green flags following Gaddafi support Gaddafi. Gaddafi pays supporters especially the poor immigrants to carry green flags and follow him so the outside world will know he has supporters. I am an African and I may not know much about what goes on outside Africa but I do know what goes on inside Africa. The sad part of the story is that if the foreign troops pull out of Libya right now, Gaddafi will hunt and kill all the opposition leaders as he has done in the past so at this point in the conflict, there is no turning back and that is why foreign intervention in any form (not just the UN) is very important. Gaddafi has executed so many opposition people in the past so there is no doubt he will hunt and kill innocent protesters should UN troops pull out right now.

Gaddafi is a heartless killer and must be stopped with or without any foreign intervention.

[Doug]

Gaddafi has executed so many opposition people in the past so there is no doubt he will hunt and kill innocent protesters should UN troops pull out right now.

There is no nation in the world that will not punish those who try to overthrow the government of that nation. Those people know full well what will happen if they fail to overthrow it. It is the chance they are taking. Since when is there a reward for stupidity?

Gaddafi may be everything you say he is. Gaddafi may have done all the things you say he did. Gaddafi may have trained hundreds of people years ago. So what? The UN is trashing one of it's own when Gaddafi did not start this thing but the rebels did. You know it would be nice if you addressed some of the things offered you for comment instead of fluffing them off because you know nothing about them. Worse yet you will not even comment on many of the things presented to you for comment. You give us the silent treatment like you never even read most of the post. That is very frustrating and even impolite. I know you know about the Jews and their exploits or you never listen to the news. Seems you stick your head in the sand every time you do not want to deal with something. You tell us you search the internet to research things but I guess it is only for subjects you want to justify. That does not make for a very fruitful, informative or interesting discussion. You are a very prolific writer but lets have a discussion rather than a one sided opinion presentation. Thanks very much and hope the monkey got his voice back.

[Kofi]

"You give us the silent treatment like you never even read most of the post. That is very frustrating and even impolite." I am very sorry about that.

"Did Gaddafi start this rebellion?"
I think Gaddafi started this whole thing. Everyday I see some Americans on CNN holding placards and protesting on the streets but I have never seen the police fire live bullets at protesters why because they(the protesters) have the right to protest. For example, just a few days ago I watched one video on CNN and in that video I saw so many Americans protesting in New Jersey why because they said the Governor of New Jersey (Governor Christie) is trying to cut education expenses. There were so many people protesting on the streets. I saw some police walk by but I never saw a police fire live bullets to drive protesters away. That is exactly the opposite of what happened in Libya. It is not a crime to protest against injustice but it is a crime to drive away protesters with live bullets.

"Gaddafi is fighting to preserve the country and it's government".
NO Gaddafi is not fighting to preserve the country. Gaddafi is fighting to preserve his power because he thinks power is a family property which is not true. Power belongs to the people because you cannot rule an empty country. If the people you are ruling say they don't want you in power again, the wisest thing to do is to leave quietly so they can try another person. It doesn't make much sense to kill your own people just because they protest against your regime. And as I said in my post, not so many people you see with green flags on TV support Gaddafi. In fact, most of the people you see on TV waving green flags are the people Gaddafi pays to follow him and most of them are poor immigrants who will do anything for money. Gaddafi pays them to carry green flags and follow him so the world will know he has supporters.

"Since when is there a reward for stupidity?".
It is very stupid to kill innocent protesters but I don't think it is stupid to protest against injustice. In fact, keeping quiet and dying slowly is rather stupid. In this case it is very risky as you said but I don't think it is a stupid idea to protest against injustice. Gaddafi is a heartless killer and a very wicked monster but keeping quiet and watching this monster terrorize you all the days of your life without saying anything loud is rather very stupid in my opinion.

"What's fair is fair so why don't the UN back those who want to destroy the Jewish rotten land-grabbing killing waring nation."
From the little I know, the UN works quite different from the International court of Justice. The UN does not decide who takes this land or who takes that land. The UN fights crimes against humanity and aids those in desperate need. It doesn't matter if you own this land or that land. Being the rightful owner of the land doesn't mean you should go about killing all illegal inhabitants of the land. That is a crime against humanity and that is what the UN hates. Israel is the only Jewish state in this whole world and so I understand why the Jewish people are ready to fight blood for blood to protect their land. It may be true that the Palestinians are the rightful owners of the land but I don't think that is up to the UN to decide. The UN may help divide the land into two separate nations but the UN cannot give the land to one side. What the UN does is that, anytime there is a clash going on, the UN steps in to help calm the storm so as to protect innocent civilians such as women and children.

Also from what I have learned, Israel is a U.S Ally. America is just a member country of the UN but America is not the UN. The UN may not have the right to supply Israel with guns and other war materials but Israel is a U.S Ally and America has the right to step in and help its Ally(Israel) anytime Israel is in trouble. So I don't see anything wrong with America supplying Israel with guns and other war materials.

In the case of Libya, I watched a video on CNN yesterday and in that video one U.S army officer said they are not targeting Gaddafi in person. Yes It is wrong for the UN troops to target Gaddafi in person because I have not seen Gaddafi (in person) with a gun firing at innocent civilians. But there is nothing wrong in preventing pro-Gaddafi forces from firing live bullets at innocent civilians. The rebels are also fighting back. There is no doubt the rebels have killed some pro-Gaddafi soldiers but the main reason why the UN supports the rebels is because the rebels don't fire at innocent civilians such as women and children. The UN is helping the rebels not because the UN wants to kill Gaddafi. The UN is helping the rebels so as to protect innocent civilians.

The same thing applies to Israel. Even if Israel is the wrong one in this case, I don't think it is right for the UN to supply anti-Jewish groups with war materials so they may be able to destroy Israel why because there are also innocent women and children in Israel. In other words, although Israel may be the wrong one, if the anti-Jewish groups decide to fire live bullets at innocent civilians including women and children then it is the duty of the UN to step in and help. One thing I have noticed is that, almost all the Islamic nations on earth hate Israel. Almost all the countries surrounding Israel in the Middle East want Israel out and because of that, they don't spare even day-old Jewish babies. They just want to wipe Israel out entirely(not sparing even tiny little babies) anytime there is a clash and that I think is the main reason why the UN always steps in to help Israel.

[Doug]

The protesters started nothing. Thanks for correcting me.

No Gaddafi is not fighting to preserve the country and it's government. Good to know.

Innocent protesters? And all-along I thought they were breaking the law. How stupid of me!

From the little you know of the UN you seem to have every little detail of the UN worked out. Wish I could do that.

They just want to wipe Israel out entirely(not sparing even tiny little babies).
So did God when the Jews refused to obey the voice of God and went back into idolatry making blood sacrifice to a golden cow. Did not know you corrected God. Sorry.

They just want to wipe Israel out entirely(not sparing even tiny little babies) anytime there is a clash and that I think is the main reason why the UN always steps in to help Israel. If that is the case then why doesn't the UN do the same for the Palestinians when Israel kills thousands of innocent men, women, children and babies to take over their land and build Jewish settlements. Why does the UN do nothing when the Jews blockade the food supply of the poor Palestinians and cause thousands of men, women, children and even innocent babies to starve to death? That seems to not bother you one little bit.

You are right on one thing. The UN works quite different from the International court of Justice. The UN doesn't know what the word just means. There idea of mercy is only for the ones they like. You want proof? Just look at the Jews and their weak neighbor who does not have any means to protect themselves from aggression. I guess maybe these poor people do not have enough money to support the UN in the stile they like to be supported in.

Long live the UN so fair, so righteous, so just, so merciful, so caring. May your benevolence to all poor downtrodden peoples of this world be seen by all in your two-faced administration of help. May your hypocrisy shine forth for all to see and admire. May those who justify your standards bathe in your pretense and sleep well.

Do I sound a teene weene ity bity sarcastic perhaps? At least I can stand on the fence and see both sides.

Don't start the job unless you got the guts to finish it.
Don't try to get something unless you are willing to pay the price for it.
If you start a conflict do not expect others to do the dirty work and finish it.
A wise man knows every action has a reaction and will consider that before acting.
Not understanding the above is stupidity so be ready to eat it's fruits.

[Kofi]

"A wise man knows every action has a reaction and will consider that before acting. Not understanding the above is stupidity so be ready to eat it's fruits."
That is very true. The rebels should have kept quiet because Gaddafi is a monster. The same thing applies to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. If you know that the UN will support Israel to destroy you then why not just give your land to Israel and give up the fight? I think that would prevent all these bloodshed.

I don't hate the Palestinians. I hate the killing of innocent people especially women and children no matter the side. If a soldier (such as a pro-Gaddafi soldier) goes to battle and die on the battlefield, that is something he chose to do freely for his country. However, innocent civilians such as women and children do not deserve to die. It is almost impossible preventing civilian deaths in times of war because a strange bullet knows no owner. We cannot prevent strange bullets but we can prevent 'targeted' bullets. The pro-Gaddafi forces go about shooting at innocent civilians instead of shooting at rebel troops. That is a sign of insanity and that is something we can prevent and that is something the UN can help and that is the situation the UN is helping now.

It is very bad for the UN to support just one side(in the case of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict) in destroying the other. That is not the core principle of the UN but that doesn't mean the UN acts fairly under all conditions. In this case as you said, the UN is not being fair to the poor Palestinians which is very sad but the fact the UN is not being fair to the Palestinians doesn't necessarily imply the UN is not being fair to Gaddafi and the pro-Gaddafi forces. In the case of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, both sides are fighting for the same piece of land which means they are 50-50 monsters. In the case of Libya however, one side is fighting for power and the other side is fighting for freedom so it is very clear who is the monster in this case and it is very clear which side needs support.
If at this point you still don't believe Gaddafi and the pro-Gaddafi forces are insane, read this story
cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/03/26/libya.beaten.woman/index.html?hpt=C1

[Doug]

America and Allies (Britain and France) in Libya for Oil?

The discussion is not about believing or not believing Gaddafi and the pro-Gaddafi forces are insane. We all know he is not an angel. You are the one to start the thread about being in Libya for Oil! Will Britain, France or the US come right out and say we are in Libya for oil? I do not think so and I do not believe you think so. There must be some reason you would ask this question or you would not state it in the form of a question. So what about it? Is it oil or not? If not oil then why? Obama sent our military into that country without the approval or even asking or informing our congress about it. They are very upset and are demanding our president for an explanation of his actions. This monday Obama is going on television to explain his actions, for, in the minds of us citizens of the US, that is getting very close to dictatorship.

So why are we, Britain and France in Libya?

To start with the only one at this point in the US that knows is Obama.
The UN claims it is to protect innocent men, women and children from being shot or what have you by Gaddafi and his military.
You seem to know that the UN is committed to this end for every nation.
So with your reasoning, the power nations are sticking their nose in this conflict is for humanitarian reasons and not oil.

What I am saying is that neither the power nations nor the UN is consistent in this purpose. They only protect and help the powerless when it is in their interest. I have given you examples of this unfairness but you have a knack of twisting them into something else.

So the question then must be asked, why does the UN and the power nations go to war for some poor persecuted downtrodden people and not others in the same fix or even worse? What is the motivation that causes a choice of one over the other? Why would the US and other nations spend trillions of dollars defending the persecuted of one country and not the other? Why go after one villain like Gaddafi and not after the many others like or even worse than him?

All you have to do is look at history for the answer. It is determined by the amount of resources of value. What other country did the US overthrow it's vile leader just as bad as Gaddsfi or even worse that was under pretext of liberating the oppressed. What resource does it have? The same with Libya. The justification for this was is helping oppressed people but the aim is to get rid of the leaders that do not like the US and put in a leader the US can control. Control what you will ask? The price of oil. Oil is getting very very expensive in the US. Obama will loose the election if things keep going the way they are going. Bush, our former president also did this to Iraq.

And there Kofi is the answer to your question. Control of oil prices.

I also think while on the subject of the UN and it's plush quarters here in the US it should be moved to your country. If they are so bent on helping the people being shot, raped, beaten, deformed, cheated, lied to, aids riddled, poor, starving and such by their corrupt, vile and inhumane leaders this would be prime grounds for their mission. Let them live among them and maybe they would get the idea what fair is. Take away their plush living furnished by the US and give them a tin covered shack in tribal Africa for awhile until they learn that all people need help not just a chosen few.

So Kofi justify the UN and it's backers if you must. For me they are nothing but a bunch of two faced hypocrites. A bunch of leaches on the backs of the poor. Nothing but a group of lazy politicians at the beckon will of the nations seeking power over the resources of others justifying the action by helping the needy.

Will bringing the price of oil down in the US help the people in Libya? Maybe getting rid of Gaddafi might help a little. Just remember the people with the mindset of Gaddafi will still be there. One man does not make an army. Then of course there is always religion waiting to take up the slack of bondage. This is always a great tool of leaders to control people and keep them slaves to it's claim of Gods will.

And oh, the website you gave me! That happens in every war. Seems I read in your area, Africa, the thousands of rapes and killings done in the many past and ongoing waring of your people. Where was your UN in these many years?
They were where the nations of power and need of resources wanted them to be. No oil in them parts? Seems strange?

[Doug]

The question about oil. Far from covering all aspects of the presence of foreign powers in Libya the question about oil is a good one. If the foreign powers were there to take the oil of another nation there would be hell to pay. What I am saying is they will not take over the oil fields but are there to influence and control the price of it. For years the oil hungry nations have kept the oil producing nations in turmoil so there was no ability for them to control the pricing of it. The last few years this has changed and the power countries do not like it. The rising price has played havoc on their economies like the US.

I would like to know what you think about my analysis of the situation.

[Kofi]

I just watched Obama's presidential address on Libya. I also read some of the comments people are making and you are right. Not all Americans support U.S troops in Libya and you are also right on the fact that Obama did not inform the congress before sending American troops to Libya.

From the comments I read, even some congressmen don't appear to know what is going on. I always thought the congressmen were very close to the white house. I thought the congressmen knew everything that went on in the white house since they are very close to the white house but from the comments I read, not all congressmen appear to know all that goes on in the white house which is very bad. Because America is in Libya for oil, I expected those congressmen to know since they are very close to the white house but almost none appears to know which is something I don't understand. Are they pretending as if they don't know or they really don't know?

According to Obama, "To brush aside America's responsibility as a leader and more profoundly our responsibilities to our fellow human beings under such circumstances would have been a betrayal of who we are," and this appears to be the main reason why America and Allies are in Libya according to Obama's speech. To the average Joes and Jons like myself, this is the main reason why there are U.S troops in Libya but as you said, there may be a hidden reason behind this mission and after reading several comments online, I'm beginning to understand your point.

"So the question then must be asked, why does the UN and the power nations go to war for some poor persecuted downtrodden people and not others in the same fix or even worse?"
That is something I really don't understand. Right now there is a civil war going on in Ivory Coast and I have seen some UN refugee tents but almost no UN troops on the ground and that is something I really don't understand. Is it because Ivory Coast has no oil? I'm beginning to think twice.

"Why would the US and other nations spend trillions of dollars defending the persecuted of one country and not the other?" ......
There may be two reasons. 1. Humanitarian assistance 2. The Hidden reason. But I'm beginning to think twice here because if it was just humanitarian assistance (helping brothers and sisters in need), then I would expect the U.S and the UN to help all others in need not just some selected few.

"helping oppressed people but the aim is to get rid of the leaders that do not like the US and put in a leader the US can control".
Now this point makes sense because if it is true the UN and the U.S help just a selected few and not every country in need, then there may be a hidden reason why they select some but ignore others to die. Could it be that they don't have the money and the resources to help all others in need?

Now your point makes sense to me. Maybe the UN and the U.S help only those countries they feel they can benefit from at the end of the day. That may be the reason why they ignore some poor countries in Africa. I saw what went on in Darfur. Now there is a clash in Ivory Coast but the poor Ivorians get very little to no foreign help maybe because Ivory Coast has no oil to pay for the expenses at the end of the day.

I agree with you the UN is not a reliable organization and I also agree with you that America and Allies are in Libya not just to help the poor Libyans but also to get access to Libya's oil. It is very sad but in the case of Libya, there is no other option than to allow the UN troops to steal the oil but help save the poor Libyans. If the troops pull out right now, Gaddafi will continue destroying precious human lives. In my opinion, no amount of oil in this world can buy even one human life so America and Allies can go ahead and steal all the oil as they normally do but they must stay and help save lives.

We have no other choice than to allow the UN troops remain in Libya. They are there to help the poor Libyans which is very good but they are also there to steal oil which is very sad. However, it is better to allow them steal the oil and help the poor Libyans than to allow that monster Gaddafi destroy his own people.

[Doug]

Why do a great deal of the people of libya like the Libyan government and it's leader? What kind of people are the rebels? After 40+ years of Gaddafi why is there only now a band of rebels? Who stirred them up and why now?

I think you have to look no further than who is fighting their war for them. These are the people who are really responsible for Gaddafi killing those who are trying to overthrow the government. That is what every country does. When the US had it's civil war in the eighteen hundreds the southern part of our countries rebels tried to overthrow the northern states. Hundreds of thousands of people died. The traitors were killed or put in prison. That is what happens. The US and Obama shifts the blame on Gaddafi but the root cause is the ones that stirred up this group of rebels. Why are people so very naive?

Are You?

[Kofi]

If nobody started a conflict then there would be no conflict to stir. Even if U.S and Allies are there to stir the conflict, they did not start the conflict in the first place. The Libyan people started it in the first place and I don't think they would start any conflict if not for Gaddafi's oppressive rule.

"After 40+ years of Gaddafi why is there only now a band of rebels?"
people were afraid to rebel against Gaddafi all these years. The fact that they did not rebel against Gaddafi all these years does not mean they enjoyed Gaddafi's inhumane rule. They were afraid to rebel because the few who tried to rebel against Gaddafi and his regime lost their lives sooner than they could even plan it. People were living in fear all these years with no courage to rebel against Gaddafi. They mastered the courage to rebel against Gaddafi and his regime after what happened in Tunisia and Egypt. There were no UN troops in Tunisia and there were no U.S troops in Egypt so I don't think Libyans started this conflict with the hope of getting US and UN troops to help. They wanted to overthrow Gaddafi the same way Egyptians overthrew Mubarak without any foreign intervention. The UN and the US rushed in to help because Gaddafi unlike Mubarak resulted to the use of brutal force.
If it is true that the U.S and Allies are in Libya for oil, then they took advantage of the situation. The Libyans started the conflict and US and Allies rushed in to take advantage of the situation by helping the poor Libyans so they(US and Allies) may benefit at the end of the day.

There is another clash going on right now in Yemen but I don't hear much about it why because the current president of Yemen is a very strong U.S ally in that region and I don't think the U.S will like to see such a president go. On the other hand, Gaddafi is anti-American, Anti-west, a terrorist, a monster, etc. but there was no way a foreign force could remove Gaddafi from power. So in my opinion, U.S and allies were just waiting for the right opportunity to rush in. Of course their presence in Libya right now has given the rebels so much courage to continue fighting Gaddafi so in some way, it is true they are stirring the conflict but once again, there would be no conflict to stir if Libyans did not start one in the first place.

If you saw what happened in Egypt, most people were against the rebels not because they supported Mubarak but because those people did not want any violence in their country. People thought it was impossible to overthrow Mubarak therefore they considered the rebels action, an unnecessary violence. However, If you saw what happened after Mubarak's resignation, the whole nation, everybody in Egypt was celebrating. There is a similar situation in Libya. After 42 years of unchallenged rule, most people still think it is impossible to overthrow Gaddafi and therefore consider the rebels action, an unnecessary violence. That is why you see so many of them waving green flags on TV. They are not waving the green flags because they support Gaddafi, they are waving green flags because they don't want violence in their country. Only a few who benefit from Gaddafi's barbaric rule support Gaddafi in these hard times. Just a few people support Gaddafi. A major part of the population support the rebel action. Another major part support peace. Just a very small percentage of the population support Gaddafi. However, Gaddafi tries to portray the middle peace group as if they are his supporters which is not true.

America only interfere (not intervene) where there is oil. There is only one appropriate fact and that is oil.

[Doug]

you know Kofi it doesn't make any difference at all what you or I think or say. What ever will be will be. We will just wait and see. For now I must go and take a P__.

"The foreign troops went to Libya to protect innocent civilians and nothing else."

Just how much kool-aid have you been drinking? You can't be serious! Innocent people die all the time in faraway but do you see America, France and Qatar all eagerly lining up to lend a helping hand at any location where their self-interests weren't at play? Ever, ever? I say "no!" This is all about oil, natural resources and the profiteering that goes along with bombing the smitereens out of other countries. Look at our history -- the evidence couldn't be more plain. Covering our invasion of Libya under the guise of some altruistic humanitarian movement is just another WMD rouse that we use to justify the means. Nothing more. And the sooner you realize this the sooner you too can profit from this endeavor -- those that sit on the sidelines making bonehead claims regarding America's graciousness have no excuse when they find there is no place at the trough for them to consume the rewards that will come from this "war".

[Doug]

Cadron Boy you are so very very right. People only see what they want to see.

NATO people should leave Libya alone. it is libya people fight and not anybody business

America is a messed up country. messed up long time ago. If China decides to collect all the loans today where would America be? China now dictates for America because America cannot survive without China. America borrows money from China and then use the borrowed money to fight holy wars abroad while unemployment rate nears 10%. I don't see the wisdom in that. With about 15 trillion dollars in debt and America still boasts about being the richest country on earth. very funny!

This discussion caught my eye because I thought there'd be some productive back-and-forths, but what quickly caught my attention was all the remarks on Qaddafi.

I will not tell you that I know what's going on in Libya 100%, nor will I even start about the US' oil interest. What I will tell you is what you don't know about Qaddafi.
All the talk about Qaddafi in the US media (and middle eastern media) is negative. I will not dispute that fact. They paint him as a horrible dictator that kills without mercy.

But this is US media we're talking about here. This country's 'westoxicated' news bullitens never tell you the full truth. There's been countless incidents where what's reported is pure lies, or just not completely true. This long history of making up lies led me with interest on Qaddafi, and whether or not he's as bad as they portray him. In my studies, this is what I've found;

Qaddafi is socialist. What that means to you though, may be different than what it means to someone else, or what it means when put next to the truth.

Some interesting notes on his accomplishments though;

"Under the revolutionary leadership of Muammar Qaddafi, Libya has attained the highest standard of living in Africa. -with a GNP per capita of between USD 2,200 and 6,000."

"Every Libyan gets free, and often excellent, education, medical and health services."

"Every citizen has been given a decent house or apartment to live in rent-free."

"Any Libyan who wants to become a farmer is given free use of land, a house, farm equipment, some livestock and seed."

"All people have access to doctors, hospitals, clinics and medicines, completely free of all charges."



Sounds like a pretty horrible guy, right?
I'm not surprised; the US is very against socialist advances, and will stop at nothing to give a bad name to all things socialist. As for the Middle East, they want to claim Libya as a part of them, not as a part of Africa. It is said that Qaddafi wants to unite Africa. The reason he's attacked so much is because of his "championing of Africa and his determined drive to unite Africa with one currency, one army and a shared vision regarding the true independence and liberation of the entire continent."

"However, it is a myth that the Africans fighting to defend the Jamahiriya and Muammar Qaddafi are mercenaries being paid a few dollars and this assumption is based solely on the usual racist and contemptuous view of Black Africans"

"One Turkish construction worker described a massacre: “We had 70-80 people from Chad working for our company. They were cut dead with pruning shears and axes, attackers saying: 'You are providing troops for Qaddafi.' The Sudanese were also massacred. We saw it for ourselves."


Is the US in there for oil? Of course, there's no doubt about that.
Is Qaddafi really as bad as they make him seem? Probably not, but I don't really know.